A little bit about Regina:
Originally from Mexico City and now based in Chicago, food entrepreneur Regina felt unrepresented the moment she stepped foot in Chicago grocery stores. Regina found well-established brands portraying Mexican cultura in a stereotypical way and mostly using artificial ingredients. Nemi Snacks was founded with a mission to elevate Mexican cultura in the U.S. through high-quality snacks with sombrero-free branding. Nemi Snacks is proud to push back against the misconception that if something it ethnic, it’s cheap or low quality.
Nemi Snacks are crunchy sticks made from seeds and nopales (a.k.a. prickly pear paddle) in Mexican-inspired flavors. Nemi Snacks works directly with Mexican farmers, uses real chiles and spices and no artificial colors or ingredients. Regina has spent her legal career advocating for human rights by providing legal services to immigrants and implementing programs on a range of global human rights issues in Latin America and the Caribbean, Africa and the United States.
This interview has been edited for brevity and clarity.
Trackmind: Can you give me an idea of how you came up with the concept of your brand and also the name?
Regina: I grew up in Mexico City and when I first moved to Chicago, the first thing that I did was go to the store and look for Mexican food. I remember vividly going into the ethnic aisle and feeling unrepresented. There were all these brands that were showcasing Mexico and my cultura in a stereotypical way. So I saw a lot of sombreros, indigenous women cooking on the front of the packaging. A lot of these brands were using artificial ingredients, and these were big brands that have been in the market for years. They probably wouldn’t just update their ingredient list or do something different.
I then went to the produce section and I saw nopales, which is a prickly pear paddle, a staple of Mexican food. In Mexico, it’s known as the most sustainable Mexican plant because it thrives in hot weather, it needs very little water to survive, it doesn’t eat much water, it is packed with fiber and antioxidants and it also represents resilience because it thrives in the harshest conditions. It is also on the Mexican flag. So it has a deep cultural significance with Mexico. And I got really excited because I grew up eating nopales and it just reminded me of Mexico. And as I was about to grab it, I noted that it had spikes and I thought “who’s going to buy an intimidating looking vegetable?”
Regina: And if it’s someone who has never seen a nopal paddle, they don’t know how to cook it, they don’t know how to clean it. This will go to waste and that’s probably going to be a repetitive cycle. So to me, I left the store feeling unrepresented and just thinking “there’s no future for this plant here, the way that it’s been showcased.” And that stayed in the back of my mind. At the time I didn’t start the business, but that stayed in the back of my mind for some time. And that was the reason why I later on started the business.
I launched Nemi Snacks in mid-2019. The name means to live. Nemi means to live in Nahuatl, which is the Aztec language, and the mission of the brand is to elevate Mexican cultura through high quality snacks and sombrero-free branding. The snacks that we make are made with really good and high quality ingredients and we are proud to use the brand and push back against this misconception that if something is Mexican or ethnic or Latino then it means that it’s cheap or made with low quality ingredients. And that is the name behind the brand, and really the mission of why we’re doing what we’re doing. It’s a space where we can provide a really good high quality snack that delivers on crunch and taste, which is what customers look for.
If we go to the potato chip aisle, we want the crunch and we want the taste of a snack, and we don’t want to compromise that for health. Even if it’s a healthy product, that’s good, and there’s a big percentage of consumers reading labels and health conscious and looking for that better-for-you option, but it still needs to deliver on taste and on texture. So that was kind of the reason why I started Nemi.
Trackmind: When you say that you felt underrepresented in the market, how much of a gap was there? You know, you have a lot of different types of salsa, there are a lot of different types of chips, but in terms of other products that go beyond just chips, something that’s actually authentic and not Americanized, how much of a gap did you see in that market?
Regina: Back then, I saw a huge gap. I think today it’s different. I think today there are a lot of other brands… And not only Latino and Latina brands, but other BIPOC owned businesses that are proud about their culture and they’re trying to showcase it in a different way, and they’re really trying to elevate the conception of any kind of culture. And you see a lot of really good, high quality, amazing branding. I can think of many brands right now that are portraying that, some that are Latino or Latina owned and others that are BIPOC owned, not necessarily Latino or Latina. And I think it’s a gap that’s not only applicable to Mexican culture, but it’s applicable to other cultures as well. I think there still is opportunity in that space.
If you go to the salty snack aisle, you see potato chips, puffs, pretzels, popcorn, and tortilla chips, and the only Mexican inspired snack that you’ll find are tortilla chips. Tortilla chips are not the only Mexican snack that we should be known for, there are many other snacks and that is also one of the reasons why I didn’t do tortilla chips. I think there are many other snacks and it wasn’t an easy decision because the consumer knows perfectly well what a tortilla chip is, what it looks like, should or will taste like. It wasn’t the easiest route to go, but it was also part of this mission of, there’s so much more to share in Mexico when it comes to ingredients to formats and the spice and chiles that we’re using for our snack and the food that we make.
Trackmind: That’s so true. I guess you mentioned how a lot of different brands are changing the perception of how the culture is represented. So do you think that this is also a way for breaking stereotypes that have been set across the world, not just in the US, but across the world by bringing in products like these into markets where there’s stereotypical stuff?
Regina: I do and I firmly believe that wherever we are, it doesn’t matter how big of a business, small of a business, how big of a person, small of a person, if that’s a term. I don’t think that’s a term that we can use as an adjective for people. But sometimes we feel that way. What is one person going to do versus a whole mass? And wherever we are, we can create and be the change we want to see.
So I never questioned that as a small business, I couldn’t do that. I think my question was exactly the other way around. It was, how far can we go and how much we can do. I think there will be a market. Maybe there will always be a market, I’m not sure. At least for many more years to come for people that may be looking for Mexican food or Mexican products with a sombrero branding, there are a lot of people who are buying that and there is also a reason why companies still do what they’re doing when it comes to continuing the fostering of stereotypes. Again, not only with Mexican culture.
Trackmind: All cultures.
Regina: When I talk about culture, I talk about any culture that in the US is categorized as ethnic. And that is another question that comes up. I think the product doesn’t usually go on the ethnic aisle anymore. And there is a two way conversation to have about that kind of placement. And this is an active conversation that I have with buyers and with consumers as well is “are you finding Nemi snacks and other Mexican inspired or Latino inspired products in the ethnic aisle or mainstream?” I think now it would be all mainstream. I don’t think we can continue talking about the ethnic aisle or ethnicity the way that we did 20 years ago, 15 years ago, even five years ago because it’s changing so fast, but that change is a result of what we are doing from our side and wherever we stand. And everything that I do as a brand is very conscious. You will never see a sombrero on any communication that we have.
We’re representing and sharing a very true and honest side of Mexico, which is a modern Mexico that has so many things to offer, that is such a rich culture when it comes to music, flavors, colors. It’s such a vibrant culture, and that is what we’re trying to capture. And when we did the rebrand of our packaging in mid 2021, that is what we tried doing. And if you put Nemi’s branding in the snack aisle, in the middle of any other branding, it will be visually attractive. The colors will pop out of the shelf. You may not necessarily know that it’s Mexican at the beginning. Maybe if you find a package and you read about it and you see that it’s from Mexico and that we use Mexican spices, and we work with Mexican farmers, and that I am Mexican… Once you start learning a little bit more about it, maybe then you’ll know.
But our intention is not necessarily for that first view or encounter that you will have with the brand to say “look at me, I’m Mexican because I have a sombrero.” That is not what we want you necessarily to interpret. And if I can show a white consumer or if I can show someone who’s had that interaction, or who hasn’t had that interaction, that that is our goal. Let me show you a modern Mexico, a high quality snack, and elevated branding that is as good and as high quality as any other non BIPOC branding. I mean now I see BIPOC owned branding, it’s such high quality and it’s done amazingly, but just going back to that stereotype or misconception. “Let me show you this really good and amazing branding and high quality product. And by the way, yes, it is Mexican.” So changing that kind of association with culture is what we’re trying to do. And yes, I do believe we can change that.
Trackmind: That is amazing. It’s so good to hear that. So when you were starting Nemi, what was the biggest roadblock or the biggest problem that you faced?
Regina: So many. I think the first one is that I started the business without having institutional knowledge about the consumer packaged goods industry.
I think not having institutional knowledge of the consumer packaged goods world, that was a blessing and a curse. A curse in a way that there were so many things I didn’t know and so many things I had to learn. And I was very conscious of that. I was afraid of starting [the company] before and that’s why I didn’t start the company for some time because I was so, so afraid and there was so much fear of starting without knowing. But eventually I started and I knew that I had to learn a lot and I still do. And I love that process. I think if you’re an entrepreneur, it’s a constant learning process and changing and adapting and questioning, and it’s constant. That never leaves, and hopefully that never leaves because that’s really where you’re out of your comfort zone and you’re able to grow and continue working towards your goal and innovating.
But that was a struggle. And since the beginning I took some courses, and I was asking a lot of questions, and I knew that I wanted to find mentors and I did. And I joined some incubators, one of them is called The Hatchery, it’s a Chicago based food and beverage incubator. And they helped a lot because they were providing a lot of the information that I didn’t know where to find, and I didn’t know how to use. A lot of people say knowledge is power and I disagree. I think knowledge is power as long as you know how to use the information that you’re receiving, otherwise you don’t necessarily know how to use it the first time we see it.
I remember the first time I read consumer reports looking at all this data and I didn’t know how to interpret the data, and I had to learn how to do that. And I’m still learning because I’m getting into a little bit more complex data, facts and information that I don’t always know how to interpret and I ask for help. But at the beginning, that was the main roadblock. Not knowing “How do I sell? How does a process work? How do I reach out to stores?” Not only did The Hatchery help a lot, but there was also a course that is called “Retail Ready with Alli Ball”, and that was night and day for me because it literally takes you by the hand and it focuses on the foundation of the business in retail and it’s only for consumer packaged goods businesses that are in food and beverage so it was very specialized in what I was trying to do.
Those were the two main things that started giving me a little bit more confidence on the available paths and which one to take. And it was all about testing. I knew that I didn’t have great packaging. I knew that. I knew that I didn’t have anything that may look perfect or seem perfect. I knew that. That’s not what I was aiming for. I wanted to test the product, get it out there, start collecting data from consumers or who I thought was going to be my consumer and then just continue taking it from there and testing and changing as I needed.
But I think that was the biggest roadblock, not having a lot of the information that I knew that I needed, but I also trusted that at some point I would have it. I know that I’m not coming in with a lot of capital. I started the business with my savings and I kept my full-time job. I still have my full-time job. And just working towards that and knowing that there were some limitations, but at the same time that was an opportunity for me.
I think when you don’t have funding and when you don’t have outside investment, there’s a lot of things that you can use in your favor and then you have to be very creative about how to do things. You become very mindful about how you’re spending your money and your cash flow. In my case also there was a lot of fear because I wasn’t an expert in finance. So there was a lot of being very conscious and wary about “we’re only spending on what we need to spend.” And a lot of that goes to inventory and it still does. Most of that goes into inventory.
Trackmind: Going to the last part that you said, about when you don’t have enough funding, you need to be careful. Obviously everyone needs to be careful about how they’re spending money if they don’t have enough money. How were you able to navigate it in terms of priority? How did you learn to prioritize things knowing that you had a tight budget?
Regina: I did a growth plan and I was very realistic about my margins and how much money I needed to get from A to B and then from B to C, and how that looked like from my margins and sales and the money that was coming in from sales. How far would that take me, and then how much money would I need if I wanted to go faster? In the food industry, the margins are low. I think you need to know that before going in. I didn’t. But I knew that I had a really good product, and I’ve been very, very protective of my margins without compromising quality or wages to farmers. I knew there were other areas since the beginning where I could significantly decrease and increase my margins. So I was very mindful of that.
But I also knew that there were a lot of things that I didn’t need. In my case, I didn’t spend anything on merch, for example. I didn’t do any fancy marketing campaigns. I still don’t spend on marketing, actually. Well now I just started. I just started, but I hired someone who helps me with social media and marketing, but I wasn’t spending on ads. I still don’t spend money on any ads, either on SEO or social media. And I think just going back to these opportunities to be more creative and finding ways to connect with my consumer without that. When you don’t have that kind of capital availability, you compromise speed of growth. I’m okay with that. I’m here for the long run. And I understand the patience and resilience that goes into that path and I am perfectly comfortable with that.
And it doesn’t mean that I don’t have big ambitions or dreams for the company, it’s just the path that we’ve been taking. I’m not looking necessarily for explosive growth because I also understood the trade-off for that. I think also not coming from a CPG background, I knew that I wanted to take a slower route because I had a full-time job and I couldn’t do a lot of things. I had some constraints too, like funding constraints with hiring people to help me. I was very conscious about doing everything by myself, but I know that’s not sustainable. I’m not an expert in everything either, and I knew where my limitations were in that space. But at the beginning that’s what you have and that’s what you do.
Trackmind: How did you prioritize your expenses and your goals with a limited budget?
Regina: Just being very honest and transparent in answering the question, what is it going to take me to go from A to B? If I’m going to launch at a local chain, a regional chain, what does it take? I’m being very mindful of that and really asking myself “what is it that I need and what is it that I really don’t need? Maybe it is something that will make me feel good. Is it an ego purchase or not?” I think I was prioritizing according to that. According to “is it something that I really need to grow the business or not?” There are a lot of things that I invested in that as a consumer, you can’t see from your side, but it’s helping us grow, and grow sustainably and steadily towards where we want to go.
I think in 2021 and early 2022, I continued investing in the backbone of the business and getting everything straight out. I think with 2022 and 2021 supply chain and a lot of changes that we had to do during COVID, I just continued working on that backbone of the business. And even though there were a lot of things that maybe to the consumer were not fancy or, I don’t know, it meant for me to be just on the back of the desk, working head down, working towards… I enjoy that and I think that there’s going to be a very valuable return on investment in that. And I’m seeing that right now.
I see how operations flow smoother. Everything is easier. It takes less time to do certain things. It’s just easier. But that took time. That wasn’t something that I think I could’ve done right at the beginning. At the beginning there was a lot of – and there still is in some areas – scrambling around, figuring out how to do it more efficiently, how to do it better. And it takes time.
Trackmind: What would you say has been the most rewarding success you’ve had so far? And it could be anything, not just getting into a big retailer.
Regina: I think there are several. What really feeds into the passion and the mission of the business is when I receive customer emails and DMs and reviews of customers saying they didn’t know about this side of Mexico, or they didn’t know about this chile that I’m using, or that it reminds them of Mexico, of what some of their family used to cook for them or when they had nopales in Mexico but they have not seen nopales in a non slimy way. Because nopales, I don’t know if you’ve had nopales before, but it’s like aloe’s cousin.
Trackmind: Yeah, I’ve had it.
Regina: When you eat them in a salad or in a taco, they’re slimy and it’s not everyone’s cup of tea, and I get that. And the challenge also was “how can I showcase this amazing ingredient in a way that it’s crunchy and flavorful and that it’s snackable, and people like it?” I Think when people give you that kind of information, it serves as validation of what you’re doing. And that is always very rewarding.
Trackmind: That’s amazing.
Regina: Winning grants, that is always something that validates what that you’re doing, that you’re going on the right track. And we’re bootstrapped, but a lot of our growth has been as a result of the grants that I’ve been lucky to receive and very grateful to receive. I mean, not only lucky, but also I put in the hard work for that and learned a lot along the way, and always with advice and guidance from mentors and the community, and the industry, particularly from other female founded businesses. Kayla Castañeda, [CEO of Agua Bonita], is one of them and there are many other women and male founded businesses that are extremely supportive, and that I can go to and ask any kind of question and no conversation is off the table. And that’s been really rewarding.
And knowing that it is a space where you will find a community where you can be vulnerable and we can have very honest and transparent conversations about our struggles and our successes. That has been very rewarding, to find a space where we’re all celebrating each other’s successes and we are all – again I go back to this female founders community of – we are really lifting each other as we rise. And that is our definition of success. Finding that space with people, like-minded people, is extremely rewarding both personally and as a business as well.
Trackmind: That’s so good to hear. Because most of the time you just think about it as “okay, that person is a competitor,” so it’s good to know that there is actually a community, that you’re supporting each other and growing with each other. That’s actually the whole purpose of this interview series.
We’re hoping that with this series, we’re able to create a platform where other founders can come hear your stories, be like “okay, this person understands my struggle and I want to reach out to them and see if they have any advice for me, and if they can help me in any way.” I’m glad to know that that’s already happening.
Regina: It is. Again, from where I am, nothing is too small. Nothing that we do is ever too small to create change.
How can I create that space to amplify voices? To share a voice of whatever it is that you decide. You have your own mission and which brands you want to talk to and how you want to do it. But I think it’s that same ethos and there’s space for everyone. A lot of it. There’s a lot of “no’s” in this industry, a lot of no’s. You reach out to stores or consumers or whatever, and there’s a lot of rejection when you’re reaching out to stores, when you’re fundraising. And it’s not necessarily personal. My job from all those no’s is to see “how can I improve? How can I get better?” But it doesn’t mean that I am worthless or that I’m not valuable enough, or that I’m a bad person or that I’m ignorant. It’s just an opportunity. And there is something that one of my mentors always says, which is “embrace imperfect action.”
I think about my first pitch versus my last one, which was a week and a half ago. The first time that I did it, I had no idea what I was doing. It was embarrassing. Coming into it, I knew that it was going to be embarrassing, that I didn’t have the information that I needed, it was the first time being in the industry and understanding a lot of things and looking at data, not understanding the data that I was looking at, having no idea what were the metrics that I needed to communicate. But I knew I had to do it. And it was part of my practice and experience. And I’ve come a long way from there with the help of a lot of people in the industry that I appreciate and respect and admire.
It is really this embracing imperfect action that you can transfer to any area of your life. And it’s all about getting up and doing it again and learning from it and doing it again. And you’re going to fall again and you’re going to get up again. And that’s just life. Life is like this in any area. Relationships, business, anything, any area. That’s just the way it is. The relationship with ourselves, it is like this as well. But some people ask me “how do you start? How do you know when to start?”
You start with fear. You start exactly where you are in that same space. And there are two things that I think are needed in a business, maybe not all of them. I can only speak from the space where I’m at and the experience that I’ve had so far. Passion is very important because you’re going to need it along the way and sometimes it’s the only thing that’s going to keep you hanging in there. But discipline… Passion doesn’t go anywhere without discipline. Discipline has a different meaning for everyone, and we understand it in a different way and we can apply it in different ways. But I think those are two things that go hand in hand. And there is a discipline to passion with everything that we do. And it takes time to figure that out, and it’s taken me a long time. And whatever works right now, it’s not going to work maybe in one year, and I have to re-accommodate something and reorganize something. But that’s the beauty of it. Why do we like it? I don’t know. There’s a craziness to entrepreneurship I think, too. But it’s been an exhilarating and fascinating journey. And I wouldn’t trade myself for anyone.
Trackmind: So, talking about your product, you have five flavors right now. Do you have any plans for launching more products soon or making any changes?
Regina: Yes. When I started the company, we had three flavors. And then at the end of 2019, I asked the customers “what flavor would you like?” And they wanted a sweet flavor. So that’s when we started selling the churro flavor which we make with cinnamon dates, we started selling that. And it did really well to the point where it’s the number two best seller at the moment. And I actually thought about doing a seasonal [flavor] this year, but – talking about priorities – that priority got switched, because I decided to focus more on the sustainable growth of the business versus working towards getting out a seasonal.
There were some issues that we were having with the supply chain and I was also in this space where I couldn’t continue fulfilling orders from my basement, so I ended up finding a warehouse and there was a transition with everything with the warehouse and expenses that went into that. So I decided that it wasn’t the best moment to work on a seasonal, but there will be a seasonal next year. So the idea with the flavors is to start them out as seasonal, getting customer feedback, changing accordingly as we’re able, and then we’ll see how that flavor goes and if we add that into the Nemi Snacks familia. But I do see Nemi Snacks transitioning into Nemi Foods.
There is a lot of opportunity with innovation and there’s a lot of things on the pipeline that we’re very excited for. It’s just not the right moment, and we also need additional funding for that. But that is what is in the pipeline for Nemi. There will be more flavors for Nemi Snacks, there will be other products as well that are going to be part of the company, of course, in that same line of Mexican inspired food and Mexicans chiles and spices, and really as an opportunity to open the door to Mexico. We want the consumer to have a cultural experience, and that is something that I actually tried doing at the beginning, but I didn’t know how to do. I ended up hiring someone to help me.
Also with a rebrand, this year with everything that we’re doing around communications and social media and marketing, I had an understanding and a visual and an idea of what we wanted to do, but on the communication side of it, I’m also not a native speaker. So I communicate well, but I don’t necessarily have the language that my customer uses. And I wanted someone to help me with that, and I needed help in that space. But really, we see Nemi Snacks, or Nemi Foods eventually, as an opportunity for the consumer to have a taste of Mexico. That it is not only about what you’re putting in your mouth, but it is what you’re seeing and how we’re sharing that through our platforms, our different communication platforms, and just opening up the space for the cultural experience that Mexico is.
Trackmind: Yeah, it’s an amazing experience. I’ve been to Mexico, I absolutely love it. Is there any staple Mexican snack that you would like to bring under the Nemi Foods umbrella or that you would like to see in the market in the US? Something that’s not there yet.
Regina: Nemi Snacks is that. If you look at what is a staple Mexican snack – the churrito is a staple Mexican snack – you mostly find it in Mexico City and the south. There’s some places in the north that sell it. Actually in Mexico and in Spanish they’re called churritos. A churrito is a long stick. I couldn’t use that name because people don’t know what that means. Also, a churro is a marijuana joint, so I just didn’t want to create any confusion around the term. And I think if I was already working with a new ingredient that needed some education and a different kind of presentation of the brand, it was just too much to tackle. So we just call them sticks, but that is a popular snack in Mexico. And there are many more, and there are many others, and there’s so much room for innovation when it comes to how we can present nopales, the prickly pear paddle, in a way that it is approachable and edible and exciting for the consumer to try. But there is definitely a lot of room for innovation in that space.
Trackmind: Latinas like yourself, you’re creating space for yourselves in the industry. How do you feel knowing that you’re creating that space for future generations?
Regina: I always say being a Latina is a gift. It’s an honor, but it’s also a responsibility. And I think being in a position where I have a food business, I have the opportunity to satisfy more than a food craving. So what are the values that I want to share, not only that are visible to you, but also as a company? I think with the legal background that I have in doing human rights work, I always knew that I wanted to work with farmers directly. I knew that some of my clients when I did immigration law were forced to leave their home countries as a result of predatory practices against them. I knew I wanted to work with them and I wanted to pay them what we believe to be a dignified wage.
Women of color, we have to be intentional about creating opportunities for women of color. Things are not just going to happen because I wish for them to happen. I actually need to do something that is tangible. So being intentional about hiring women of color, partnering with women of color, supporting women of color. Again, I always go back to this phase that we already talked about. As a food company, I have an opportunity, and what is it that I want to do with that opportunity? And the responsibility. If you hear the word responsibility, what does that mean? The ability that I have to respond to something according to where I stand, my resources, my capabilities. So how can I do that from where I’m at?
And I come in with that understanding of proudly identifying as a Latina. Being a Latina is an honor, because I think that is where my opportunity and my uniqueness lies. How can I bring that into the table? And that is going to be my point of differentiation. And that is my Northern Star with a lot of what we do in Nemi Snacks and also personally as well. And the responsibility of, I’m speaking on behalf of a community because it’s not only about myself. I’ve had the fortune to see examples of other Latinas leading the way and creating a path for me and for people that are alongside myself. And how can I continue doing that in the most honorable and honest way?
Trackmind: Yeah, that’s so well said.
Regina: I’m trying, and it’s a struggle. It’s an everyday struggle. And then there is a moment where “oh, I’m there.” I think it’s a lot of spirituality in the sense that we’re always trying. Every day we’re always trying and doing differently and adjusting, but it’s always an opportunity to really bring out that best self and show people the amazing background that we have, and our capabilities and our strengths. And as women, too. Not only as Latina, but as women, of this voice that we have that we’re just reclaiming back, and we’re just creating that space. We’re not asking for permission for people to “oh, can you create this space for me? Can you bring a chair for me?” No, no, no. We’re past that stage.
We’re in a space where I’m not asking you for permission, I’m just bringing my chair and creating my own table at community. And we believe that now. I think we’re in an amazing moment to start a business.
Trackmind: That is so well said. I’m so glad to hear that. And I hope that this message goes to as many people as possible because it is all about creating space for ourselves, especially when we are considered a minority, which we’re not. It’s about breaking these barriers and getting things done.
Regina: Correct. And it is up to us, and I appreciate what you’re doing and I’m very grateful for this space because that is it. How can we continue amplifying? And it’s not only about my message, it is just about the world that we want to see, those changes that we want to see. What is our responsibility in creating that change?
And thank you for being very intentional and mindful about finding women owned businesses, BIPOC owned businesses, and helping us amplify that message and get that mission, that vision out. So we really appreciate it.
Trackmind: Of course, thanks so much for taking the time to talk to me today.
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